The Guitar Gallery Forums - The Guitar Legacy of Matsumoku

Q&A, discussion, and information for the labels covered by The Guitar Gallery (Specifically and exclusively guitars made by Matsumoku up to 1987)
It is currently Fri 29 Mar 2024 12:30 AM

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Wood snafu
PostPosted: Thu 02 Jun 2011 06:46 AM 
Offline
Virtuoso

Joined: Thu 12 Mar 2009 05:23 PM
Posts: 511
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
As you know, I'm working on an update for the Aria Pro specs(it never ends :no: ).
The most difficult part is proofing the specs over several catalogs and years. Now add the fun of having both a domestic and an export market and things get funny.
Oh, and don't forget translating japanese, which ain't all that easy for me. I know some of it but I don't read it fluently.

Example, I spent about an hour just trying to figure out the TS-400, looking through several catalogs from many years(1979-1982), translating, cross-checking, making mental notes.
Then came the snafu that made me hit the wall(almost literally). The specs between japanese catalogs and american catalogs doesn't match. :-?
The non-transisiton models of the TS-400 are listed as a sycamore/maple lamination in american catalogs, while japanese catalogs lists them as chestnut/maple.
The transition model is listed as hardwood/maple, and both chestnut and sycamore are hardwoods, so the wood specs probably were the same during the entire production run.
Anyway, this doesn't make sense to me, so I just let it go, stepped away for a couple of days. I'm back at it now, thinking about it, researching wood...

But I still need your help, what is your theory about this wood issue?
I strongly doubt that they used two different body woods depending on which market they were aiming for, that doesn't make sense at all.
I've also not seen any evidence of any discrepancies between domestic and export in other models, apart from the FS/SH naming and different headstock shape for the Gibson copies.

My theory, is that it is a translating boo-boo in the american catalogs, and that all TS-400's are chestnut/maple.
But I cannot for the life of me understand how you could make such a massive mistake, sycamore & chestnut doesn't look anything alike in japanese writing.
I've been looking at wood grains and chestnut matches the look of the TS the best, imho.

Anyway, any thoughts guys? :loon:

_________________
Confessed MAA member since April 21st 2011.
Went through MAA detox in April 2012.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wood snafu
PostPosted: Thu 02 Jun 2011 07:11 AM 
Offline
Virtuoso

Joined: Thu 12 Mar 2009 05:23 PM
Posts: 511
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
The fool doesn't know when to give up.. or maybe there's an appropriate english proverb that fits? :toopid:

I started with the TS-500 now, and it's the same thing chestnut VS sycamore, but for the transition model it's listed as Sycamore(instead of hardwood like the TS-400).
I'm just getting more and more confused. :bawl:

Oh, and as for my translation theory, if it helps anyone else.
I took a quick glance at the TS-600 and the specs are identical between american and japanese catalogs.
So why the difference between catalogs on the TS-400/500? I feel like tearing my hair out.

_________________
Confessed MAA member since April 21st 2011.
Went through MAA detox in April 2012.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wood snafu
PostPosted: Thu 02 Jun 2011 07:41 AM 
Offline
Virtuoso
User avatar

Joined: Sat 30 Apr 2011 08:55 AM
Posts: 231
Location: Pori, Suomi
Sycamore can also be one of two genera of trees, Acer (Maples) or Planatus (Plane). I suspect the former, and if so you can pretty much throw the Sycamore/Maple distinction out of the window.

I can't really offer advice about Chestnut however, except that it is related to Quercus (Oaks) as they are in the same family Fagaceae. Without opening a can of worms, is it possible that the "Chestnut" may actually be an Oak same as was used on other Arias?

_________________
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use" - Søren Kierkegaard
"It looks just like a Telefunken U47" - Frank Zappa


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wood snafu
PostPosted: Thu 02 Jun 2011 08:21 AM 
Offline
Virtuoso
User avatar

Joined: Mon 19 Mar 2007 08:50 AM
Posts: 1588
Japanese sycamore is in the Acer (maple) family. Chestnut is more of a puzzle as it is a soft splintery wood that i would not have thought as being suitable for guitars.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wood snafu
PostPosted: Thu 02 Jun 2011 08:51 AM 
Offline
Virtuoso

Joined: Thu 12 Mar 2009 05:23 PM
Posts: 511
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Keep your thoughts coming. I'm determined to figure out this mystery.

RSBBass, is that only japanese chestnut that's soft and splintery? 'Cause I thought that chestnut was a hard wood(American horse chestnut is supposed to be hardwood)


As an FYI, the same japanese catalogs that lists chestnut as the wood for the TS-400/500 also has other guitars in it with sycamore as wood specs.
Not sure how it's relevant though :roll:

_________________
Confessed MAA member since April 21st 2011.
Went through MAA detox in April 2012.


Last edited by Ohjay on Thu 02 Jun 2011 09:41 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wood snafu
PostPosted: Thu 02 Jun 2011 09:27 AM 
Offline
Virtuoso
User avatar

Joined: Sat 30 Apr 2011 08:55 AM
Posts: 231
Location: Pori, Suomi
Hardwood denotes angiosperm trees which reproduce by creating covered nuts/seeds/fruit rather than direct seeding. It's only a hardwood on that basis, rather than for having hard wood! Kind of a misnomer that we should complain to trading standards about. :roll:

I've no experience with Chestnut so I defer to RSB on its specific properties.

_________________
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use" - Søren Kierkegaard
"It looks just like a Telefunken U47" - Frank Zappa


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wood snafu
PostPosted: Thu 02 Jun 2011 10:23 AM 
Offline
Virtuoso
User avatar

Joined: Wed 29 Apr 2009 12:32 PM
Posts: 3938
Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Canada
RSBBass wrote:
Japanese sycamore is in the Acer (maple) family. Chestnut is more of a puzzle as it is a soft splintery wood that i would not have thought as being suitable for guitars.

Yeah, my understanding of Chestnut is that it is indeed a soft wood and not terribly easy to work with, however, it is beautifully grained and you see it used as an accent piece. I cannot imagine it being used as a tonal wood since it is apparently a bugger to dry out and stabilize. :dunno:

Is it possible the term "chestnut" refers to the colour rather than the wood itself?

_________________
Guitars: https://legend.barryeames.com
Music/Pix/Videos: https://getback.barryeames.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wood snafu
PostPosted: Thu 02 Jun 2011 10:32 AM 
Offline
Virtuoso
User avatar

Joined: Sat 30 Apr 2011 08:55 AM
Posts: 231
Location: Pori, Suomi
Image

_________________
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use" - Søren Kierkegaard
"It looks just like a Telefunken U47" - Frank Zappa


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wood snafu
PostPosted: Thu 02 Jun 2011 10:54 AM 
Offline
Virtuoso

Joined: Thu 12 Mar 2009 05:23 PM
Posts: 511
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Barry wrote:
Is it possible the term "chestnut" refers to the colour rather than the wood itself?

Definitely not. It's listed under the body category, not finish.

An example:
Code:
Body: Chestnut + maple + chestnut
      hardware stuff, knobs buttons etc
Neck: Maple 3-piece(set neck)
      Rosewood fingerboard
      650 mm long scale
      24 frets
Color: Natural
       Walnut
         
etc etc



One thing I missed was that one catalog actually lists the weight of the TS-400 through 800.
The 400/500 with supposed chestnut weigh 3.8 kg while the confirmed ash 600/800 weigh 3.6 kg.

_________________
Confessed MAA member since April 21st 2011.
Went through MAA detox in April 2012.


Last edited by Ohjay on Sat 04 Jun 2011 08:13 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wood snafu
PostPosted: Sat 04 Jun 2011 08:09 AM 
Offline
Virtuoso
User avatar

Joined: Tue 27 Oct 2009 02:53 AM
Posts: 480
Location: Strailya
Hey Oscar, just weighed The 2 TS's I have,if its any help to you.
Both 1980 models/Six on one side HS.
TS-500 3928g
TS-600 3775g
Unfortunately I have sold my 400 so no weight available from that one.
Here's a pick of the 3 together if its any help.
The 4 + 5's appear to be a different wood to the 6
Image

_________________
My Guitars- http://matsumokuguitars.com/


Last edited by Trevor on Sat 04 Jun 2011 08:16 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group