The Guitar Gallery Forums - The Guitar Legacy of Matsumoku

The Da Vinci Code

Do all VA900 start with 00 ? Frenchy? Eyebulger? Corsair? Denizuma?
Do all VA800 start with 81 ? ? ? ? ?

Frenchy somewhere said that the top of the line model VA900 has been produced only for a short period.
Probably all in the same year. (Don't know where he's got the information from however)

Therefore better to have a look at the VA800s:
Because of the many variations, I'm sure VA800s were built over a longer period.
Not only 1978 (old theory)!
If all VA800s start with 81, the first two! digits would indicate the model !(Trevor's theory presumed).
So as long as no one comes up with a VA800(24 fret) not showing "81...", I'm for the "first 2 digits = model"-
theory.
The other digits = production numbers : Low = early , High= late

Trevor, do you have more VA serial numbers ? Deviations ?

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All vantage-branded guitars were lower-priced instruments aimed at the beginner-to-intermediate market. It has no interest to collectors and very little demand among players! (www.allexperts.com)

Hi Kees, do you disagree with both of these statements?
I assume you meant to just quote the lower one regarding fixed & through neck.
Yes I agree that the neck plate s/n method does not seem to work with dating the VA900's 6 digit number due to them all starting with 0.
VP795's also have a 6 digit number which have a broad range of starting numbers eg:4,0,1,3 etc.
The VA800's however are a 5 digit number & are correct with all of the 5 digit numbers identifying the model number.

Neither of these theories work with my s/n list unfortunately.
I think we really need to keep theories regarding the 5 & 6 digit numbers seperately to & not lump them together as they appear to be based on completely different systems.
Firstly the 5 digit numbers.
The 2nd number doesn't seem to represent the year of production due to only 0,1 & 2 being used, with 0 being exclusive to pre 1980 models.
The 2nd number could possibly represent a model within the series but I doubt they would have factored it in before they new there would be a preceding model within a particular series.
At this stage I am leaning towards the remaining 4 numbers in the 5 digit serials being simply just production numbers.
Another thing steering me toward this idea is one of my guitars, It is a pre 1980 700VP, 5 digit serial begining with 7.
When I rebuilt this guitar I noted the bridge, it is the original Ray Bridge with the year 1979 stamped into it & nowhere in the serial is a 9.
Now the 6 digit numbers.
The first number is only consistent on VA900's, being all zero's, other models with 6 digit numbers have a varying first number, so this makes it impossible to make a rule for them, other than the possibility that it is a year of production as I stated at the start of the post, which is possibly incorrect.
The 2nd number in a 6 digit serial also seems to vary quite a lot, so very hard to pin point what it stands for at this time IMO.
Yes I definately agree the more numbers the better.
Cheers.

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Hi Mozart, from my list all pre 1980 VA800's start with 80 & post 1980 models are all 81.
It is the same for VP700's but with the addition of 82 for post 1980 models.
VP710's seem to follow also.
VP795's do not as thery are a 6 digit number & are a completely different system.

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I believe the upper one is correct. I only quoted it to clarefy the lower one

It wouldn't be strange to find a 1979 bridge on a 1980/81 guitar. I do believe 1980/81/82 are the years the 'striped' models were made. So that would make sense. I'm still not convinced the 'old' logo is per-se pre-1980 ... There's an extensive thread here viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4801#p27458 on the headstock logo's, and one of the (possibly incorrect) conclusions was that most guitars with that small logo were from 1980 ... the bigger logo seems to have been used both before and after.(this was assuming the 'old' dating method was correct, ofcourse).

I have seen only very few JAPANESE made acoustics with the 'new' logo (only one I think, Frenchy's 12 string), they're usually Koreans ...

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Trevor, are all presumed 'pre-1980 VA-800's' the 22-fret Phantom kind? And the 'post-1980' ones 24-fret, in your view? If so, we could maybe draw a different conclusion from the '80' and '81' ...

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http://www.GuitarDir.com has been hacked by some mindless fool, destroying years
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This is a fabulous thread, guys - thank you all for the time and effort!

Curious thing worth mentioning in this thread: A little wile ago Johann ('Mozart') pointed out a pic on ebay Germany, which showed Corsair's Vantage catalog (well, clearly the same -striped- models and lay-out) that said 'Vantage catalogue 1982' on the cover. John ('Corsair') is very certain he got his in Australia in 1980.
Looks like Europe got the 'new old stock' back then.

_________________
http://www.GuitarDir.com has been hacked by some mindless fool, destroying years
of gathering info on guitars by non-commercial guitar lovers. Why?

Its a lot cheaper to print "Specifications subject to change without notice" on all literature than reprint every time a model changes.

I really believe that the change over happened around the start of 1980.
With the pre 1980 guitars its not just the Logo that’s different, its everything.
Logo, tuners, pots, reverse model on TRC, neck plates, neck profile, (some models only), & the main thing, body edge routing.
Changing production from these older style guitars would have required re-tooling.
They would never have been produced sporadically.
They all would have ceased production when the change over was made.
I am certain the newer Logo was never used before this time as
the new logo goes hand in hand with the total differences in the guitars.
I have never seen a mix of either of the pre 1980 style & post 1980 style period.
If they were in production at the same time I’m sure we would have seen things such as New Logo with old neck plate, old Logo with V tuners, old body route with new logo etc. The point I am trying to make is I have simply never seen any mix of old & new period.
I have here a pre 1980 600VS & a post 1980 VS600 all with the differences I have mentioned, the VS600 is a 1980 model by serial on the neckplate beginning with 0, so obviously first run of post 1980 models & carries all of the characteristics I have outlined.
The 600VS on the other hand, also carries all of the characteristics I have outlined for a pre 1980 guitar an is undateable at this time other than it is pre 1980, now make no mistake, these guitars are completely different beasts other than their general appearance, such is the way with all old logo guitars.
It’s the same with my Pre 1980 700VP.
It shares all of the characteristics of the 600VS including the body routing.
There is no way this guitar was made after the tooling change over was made to the post 1980 style.
Which brings us back to its bridge marked 1979.
I don’t discount that early into 1980 they possibly had not changed over yet as I don’t think an exact date will ever be known, but it was definitely made prior to my 1980 VS600 mentioned above.
The order that these guitars were in, when they made there way to all of the countries that they were sold in is anyones guess.
I can see that some old models were probably sold after the new models came in.

Now just a quick thing on the acoustic, I have here a VA10S steel string acoustic made in Japan printed on the label inside.
Serial is 84010373. I have always assumed it was made in 1984.
It has the new Logo & V tuners.
Appologies guys, I would have liked to have posted some pics up but I have to run, I’m flat out tonight, probably going to be knee deep in it for taking the time to type this.
Kees, as soon as I have time I’ll send you the spread sheet, it just needs a tidy up first.
Cheers all
Trev.

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My Guitars- http://matsumokuguitars.com/

VA900: 00....
VA912: 01....
VA800 Phantom/22 frets: 80...
VA800 24 frets: 81...
VP700: 72...
VLP pre '80/old neckplate: 05....

Always the same first two digits.
Too much correspondence to be by chance !!!

_________________
All vantage-branded guitars were lower-priced instruments aimed at the beginner-to-intermediate market. It has no interest to collectors and very little demand among players! (www.allexperts.com)