The Guitar Gallery Forums - The Guitar Legacy of Matsumoku

Hi. I'm new here. Please forgive (and delete) if this issue has been discussed before.

Long time lover of the very esoteric Takamine solid body electric series, made for a scant blip in the early/mid 1980's. I currently own 4, they are the best playing electric guitar I've ever owned (and I've owned them all ). Quality on them is just top notch. Per the research of others, they seem to have DiMarzios right from the factory (which, IIRC, would be very consistent with 1980s Matsu practices, who sourced most of their pups).

The quality level on these is very, very high. They are shaped and finished set neck (not "neck through" as they're often erroneously referred to) which, again, puts them square in the wheelhouse of Matsu designs during this time.

I think the proof is in the pudding, however. Lets look at some comparative pictures.
This is a rather oddball finish Takamine GX200T (t stands for 'trem') in factory mahogany. I have one of these.



This is a Matsu (linked due to size restrictions)
http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz239/Champipple/MatumokuLikeTak1_zps4e999fa5.jpg

The aesthetic similarities between this guitar and the Takamine GX200 I have are halting. The knobs are basically identical, the faux MOP headstock logoing is achieved in precisely the same way, even the truss rod cover is shaped the same. The woods, while not apparent in the picture (where the Tak appears more 'red') are identical in color. There's obviously some differences in positioning of the switches, the bodies are shaped differently etc, but the basic aesthetic is very common between them.

Here's a Tak GX200 with tailpiece with the rather eccentric and unusual 'blueburst' color, unless, of course, it's pictured next to a Matsu made Aria from the same time



Here's one of the scarcer Takamine GZ300's shown next to an Aria, again, with very strong aesthetic commonality, including the bridge.




Over the years, the casual chatter about these Takamines has always been a suspicion that they were Matsumoku made. Unfortunately, given the end of Matsu, Takamine's unwillingness to furnish any additional information about this short lived series and a general dearth of pictures and information about them on the internet I don't know if 'certainty' will ever be upon us but as a betting man who's handled a lot of Takamine solid body electrics, more than a few Matsumoku made guitars and has researched this in depth, I'd bet my net worth that, indeed, the Takamine solid body electrics are proudly Matsumoku made.

Keep talking, I'm listening

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You can never have too many guitars

I'm gonna need better close ups.
I can see similarities but I wouldn't say 100% just yet. Not sure I'm even on board at all.

The bridge on that GZ300 looks like an aftermarket Kahler.

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Quality service since 3:00 last Tuesday

These appear to be beautifully built guitars.
I'm sorry, but I'm just not seeing the same "aesthetic similarities" that you are, particularly in your comparison of the Tak GX200 with the APII Inuzuma. Neither the shape nor the finish is the same. The Westbury in your Photobucket link also looks nothing at all like the Tak.

As for the DiMarzio pickups I think you'll find those more commonly on the 70's made instruments. By the 80's Matsumoku was using it's own products typically stamped MMK on the bottom accompanied by a rubber stamp with a number inside a rectangle indicating the pup model. These were wound by Maxon Japan.

As I say, your Tak's are beautiful guitars, obviously well made made, but there was a number of extremely competent instrument builders in operation at the time, including people like FujiGen, for example. As for similarities, there was a kind of shared commonality of design amongst the products of the 80's. Had to do more with marketing, fashion and Western pop fads than anything else.

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"A little song, a little dance. A little seltzer down your pants." -Chuckles the Clown
Guitars: https://legend.barryeames.com
Music/Pix/Videos: https://getback.barryeames.com

I'll get around to posting some other comparative pictures later.

You have to look past things like precise 'shape' since that's obviously going to be modified on a proprietary basis from contract to contract. There are stylistic elements that are very common, not to mention the same hardwares, etc. Naturally, it's possible this is just different companies using the same contractor, but I'm pretty sure these are Matsu guitars.

More forthcoming in a bit.

Look forward to seeing them.
I think I'll have to disagree once more. In the case of "white labeling", which is what we're essentially talking about here, the shape of the instrument and it's components does not change, it's still made on the same CNC cutters and the pattern is the same. It's mainly the headstock logo and perhaps the odd bit of hardware that are different.

In some instances the finish or the wood might be different, but not often. One of the most famous examples is the Skylark run offered through JC Penny which by any other name is a Cardinal. Only the headstock name changed.
Matsumoku was not alone in this practice. If you think about it, it makes no economic sense to change cutters programs and molds for short run production. And they didn't.

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"A little song, a little dance. A little seltzer down your pants." -Chuckles the Clown
Guitars: https://legend.barryeames.com
Music/Pix/Videos: https://getback.barryeames.com

The bottom Skylark might loosely compare to a Cardinal but I'd say the other two Skylarks are closer to the Vantage line.
I'd like to see these Takamines disassembled. Then we'll see if there's a possible connection.

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Quality service since 3:00 last Tuesday

I don't know how familiar you are with the economics of modern manufacturing but as far as CNC goes, it's very advantage is it's quick and inexpensive adaptability to modifications. It's trivially easy to make alterations to the base program that would result in a different shape for however many pieces you wish, then return back at your leisure. The Japanese were very much on the leading edge of CNC tech in the early and mid 1980's.

There is essentially no economic burden to change something like a guitar body shape. Cutters are the same.
To change casting molds (for plastic parts) is a different matter but thats not really what we're talking about here, since there's no debate that the different brand guitars are using mostly identical plastic parts. That's pretty obvious.

Anyway, hopefully today I'll have some time to get some better pics of the Taks.

OK, but my essential point remains that they were re-brands of standard run instruments, not new creations.

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"A little song, a little dance. A little seltzer down your pants." -Chuckles the Clown
Guitars: https://legend.barryeames.com
Music/Pix/Videos: https://getback.barryeames.com

Oh, I hear ya Guitar.
In another lifetime I was an engineering draftsman and designer and spent many years in the manufacturing sector. Sure mechanically, changing the cutters is "trivial" but before you do, there's design work and programming effort to be put in which is not a trivial cost. Neither is it trivial if there are multiple operations involved.

Over at the Westone Form we are fortunate in having their former principal designer Tom Presley in the house. (Westone was Matsumoku's own label for their own designs.) He has commented in various conversations about their manufacturing techniques and problems. In one of my conversations with him about the creation of the superb Westone Spectrum neck I asked him why no one was still making it since it is still clearly one of the best designs ever.

He replied that there was nothing proprietary in the design as such, however, IIRC, they had to set up 5 times in order to create the specified compound radii and tapers involved. His comment was that no modern manufacturer would invest that kind of effort as it's simply cost prohibitive. Point being, that, for Westone, it was a matter of prestige and showcasing new ideas, so the cost was borne. But for a small private label run?? Can't see it happening.

Still looking forward to it.

_________________
"A little song, a little dance. A little seltzer down your pants." -Chuckles the Clown
Guitars: https://legend.barryeames.com
Music/Pix/Videos: https://getback.barryeames.com