The Guitar Gallery Forums - The Guitar Legacy of Matsumoku

Q&A, discussion, and information for the labels covered by The Guitar Gallery (Specifically and exclusively guitars made by Matsumoku up to 1987)
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Aug 2007 06:20 PM 
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SalemB wrote:
I suspect the case might be original. It's got the same shape as my Falcon case, the same gray lining and locks in the same places. The only difference I can see is that the Falcon case had a contoured top that matched the carved top of the guitar. Does your case have the Washburn logo on it?

It looks very similar to the 1982 (I think) Raven I used to have. Pickups, tuners and neck plate might have been changed but the rest looks identical. You might want to have a look at the construction to see whether it's ply or not. You should be able to see this in the control cavity or pickup cavities.


[/b]GREETINGS - G3 H - CRUSTY - WYLDHEART - THANK YOU ONE AND ALL FOR YOUR RESPONSES! </B>

I apologize for not responding sooner; i have been in over my head with personal/work/family issues and have not been active on ANY of the boards i subscribe to, but i want to say i REALLY do appreciate all your interest.

i'm still in a bit of a quandry however; some of the info on this great site, the WASHBURN FORUM, WASHBURN FACTORY {over several calls!}, a couple general guitar sites i checked on - plus my local SAM ASH, ALL seem to conflict on one point or another! :roll: :o :-?

consensus is that the case and tuners are original
it is solid not ply.
NO ONE agrees on value!
EVERYONE - especially those who have seen and or played it in person DO AGREE in it is in super condition - great action - great straight neck - no fret wear - and KILLER sound!

OK! - i spoke to yet ANOTHER chap at WASHBURN today who was much more conversant with the WING series. he said; produced 1978 - 1982; MATSUMOKO DID NOT sub to other manufacturers.
no WINGS were korean produced until the mid nineties.
pick ups on mine are original; double coil power sustain WASHBURNS - he states they were made by eliminator.

CHEERS!

chris in ny aka DARKEY :)


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PostPosted: Fri 03 Aug 2007 07:41 PM 
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No, Matsumoku did not subcontract, and hopefully what I stated earlier was not misconstrued as this.

Washburn subcontracted at least two if not more other manufacturers other than Matsumoku. Mike and Michael were there during this period. The were of the last of the employees reachable from this period.

From what I have seen I have serious doubts as to whether the Ravens were made by Matsumoku. The bridge control cavity routes just seem wrong. This and Matsumoku to my knowledge never used stickers for serial numbers. They were almost always either stamped in the back of the headstock or into the neck plate which usually always bore either "Made In Japan" or "Product Of Matsumoku". Even the early Ibanez models subcontracted to Matsumoku bore this.

Also, I have never seen an 80's Matsumoku guitar with the plywood body. Some of the 1960's and maybe even some of the 1970's may very well have been. I realize, and there's no need to reiterate that yours is not ply, but I have seen three others including one which I own that is ply body.


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PostPosted: Thu 09 Aug 2007 01:53 PM 
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Interesting that they said the pickups were Eliminator. I haven't heard that before.
My Raven pickups had Goto stamped on them. Don't know if Goto is the same as Gotoh or not. These pickups did not have the extra lead for coil split like the power sustain pickups in my Falcon and A-20. They only had 3 (white, black and ground) leads. I therefore concluded that my Raven didn't have Power Sustains.


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PostPosted: Fri 10 Aug 2007 06:58 PM 
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"Goto" pickups were used for the second series of the PE-Deluxe as well... some of the second series come with different bridges and tailpieces... the second series of the PE-Deluxe even has a different truss rod installed... so I guess that this later PE-Deluxe was not made by Matsumoku.

Just guessing... but maybe your Washburn was made by the same factory, as the second series of the PE-Deluxe.


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct 2007 09:41 AM 
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Hi all

I've got 2 Ravens - a 1980 red and a 1981 white.
[img]http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t295/themechanic_2007/1980Washburn.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t295/themechanic_2007/1981Washburn.jpg[/img]

Both are solid mahogany bodies

The White one I've had from new, had a plastic nut (I've just replaced it with a bone nut as it was badly worn), serial number stamped on the neck bolt plate and a made in japan sticker on the headstock (Now gone). The machine heads are original and have George Washburn printed on them. The pickups were Goto (3 point adjusters) but I've just replaced the bridge PU with a PAF59 (Sounds great) Apart from that, completely original. Great guitar to play if not a bit heavy.

The red one I picked up from a mate who didn't like it, he took all the hardware off apart from the bridge so I rebuilt it to what it is now. It has a Schekter bridge PU and a Gibson Neck PU (Dirty finger if I remember correctly). It's wired 2 Vol and one tone. It also has the stamped neck bolt plate and had the made in japan sticker but it too has dissapeared.

I'm not really too bothered about their origin as they are just great on-stage guitars - solid as a rock. But after reading this thread it now has me wondering whether or not it's Japanese or Taiwanese.

Any of you washburn buffs out there care to take a punt at what the origins are??


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct 2007 08:06 PM 
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Hello and welcome,

The Washburn Ravens are probably all Japanese but the exact manufacturer is uncertain/unknown. Washburn contracted a number of manufacturers in the Wing-series era and the Raven is somewhat different from the other Wings in terms of looks, used materials and electronics.

Are you sure the white one is mahogany aswell? I have an '81 white Raven with a ply body. I'm curious to the answer since i'm trying to re-write and sort out all the Wing-specs for this website.. the theory i would like to see confirmed is that mahogany was only used for the see-through colours and ply for the solid ones.. a pic would be nice! :wink:

H.


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct 2007 12:19 PM 
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Hi There

Sorry I can't confirm your theory, the body of the white raven is definitely solid, See pics below. They aren't too clear as my camera doesn't have macro zoom but at close range you can see that the grain stretches over what would be several layers of ply, this grain continuation would not be possible in a ply body.

[img]http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t295/themechanic_2007/WB3.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t295/themechanic_2007/WB1.jpg[/img]

just for interests sake here are a couple of photos of the neck plate and pickups used on this guitar.

[img]http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t295/themechanic_2007/PA140009.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t295/themechanic_2007/PA140008.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t295/themechanic_2007/WB4.jpg[/img]

The serial number has a 2 letters before the six digit number which seems different to others on this site (The red one is the same).

Here's a picture of the headstock - the machine heads are original and have an oval logo with George Washburn printed around the outside of the picture of an acoustic guitar - you can just about make it out on the pic.

[img]http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t295/themechanic_2007/wb6.jpg[/img]

I'm thinking of putting the original pickup back on and putting the 59 on the other washburn so the white Washburn will be completely original except for the new Bone nut.


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PostPosted: Tue 16 Oct 2007 08:57 PM 
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Thank you for posting the pics.. they look pretty in focus to me and indeed your guitar looks less ply-ish as mine... which is serial GC 810435 so they are very close relatives!

I really like the Goto pickups soundwise, they have a nice kind of bluesy sound if you open the vol. up to 7 or 8.. above that you get mud.. at least when i hook the Raven up with my cheap Yamaha amp. If you put the Goto back in your guitar can you please take another look at the wood??

Thanks!

Hans.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Oct 2007 06:35 PM 
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If you take a close look at the first picture of the control cavity and look around the jack socket, there is less overspray there and you can see a good vertical section which looks like it is solid - no sign of the distinctive ply layering. If you look around the area where the pickup cables enter the control cavity the wood has been chipped and although it is just a small amount it looks like mahogany to me.

Just a quick note regarding the other one, the red / wine coloured raven, I have just noticed that although it is virtually solid (not ply) the front of the guitar (the moulded part) is a veneer, about 15mm thick at the middle and tapering to about 6 - 8mm at the edges. Is this common with other ravens of this type?

Untill I started looking around- about a week ago, I had no idea that there was so much interest in Washburn (and other guitars of this ilk). The white guitar was cheap when I bought it (Actually a 21st birthday present from my wife) and I thought that I'd just struck really lucky to get such a good guitar for the price, I had my mind set on a Gibbo LP but they just didn't measure up. When I got the second one and had a similar experience I began to wonder.

Thing is people who I know who are well respected local guitar players still fall for the emperors clothes syndrome. A guitarist that I know who is really good but will only play Gibbo's of Fenders commented recently that all my ravens were good for was chopping up for firewood. Such ignorance!! Rant over!!


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Oct 2007 06:42 PM 
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I've just noted the closeness of the 2 serial numbers - they must have made the same day. So if yours is ply and mine is mahogany could it just be luck of the draw as to what comes off the production line.

Or - could it be that more perfect bodies go to the clear lacquer department and imperfect mahogany or ply bodies go to the solid colour department??

Perhaps my body is mahogany but has a flaw somewhere that could be hidden with a bit of filler and solid colour coating.


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