The Guitar Gallery Forums - The Guitar Legacy of Matsumoku

Q&A, discussion, and information for the labels covered by The Guitar Gallery (Specifically and exclusively guitars made by Matsumoku up to 1987)
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 Post subject: WASHBURN RAVEN QUESTIONS
PostPosted: Sat 30 Jun 2007 08:06 PM 
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GREETINGS ALL!

I just wound up with this RAVEN. it is in very good condition, plays well, sounds great - but circumstances dictate that i have to let it go.

I have a couple questions - first of all, naturally being value. i have not seen any for sale anywhere, short of one in an online shop, with a gig bag for $400.00; does that sound right; high - low, realistic - or off the wall? {this one is really in Great condition}.
Any suggestions as to what to ask {and/or expect} are really needed - and MOST appreciated! :) :)
ebay is very fickle, with timing and luck accounting for so much.

second; it is missing the serial number sticker on the back of the headstock {no question though - its legit}. without it, the one guy I talked to at Washburn said it can't be dated; but with all due respect, he wasn't even sure of the years of production for the RAVEN. does anyone have any tips for another way to put a year to it?

I'm assuming this is not the original case; can someone please verify that for me?

many thanks in advance!
chris in ny


[img][img]http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e112/vintagebizarre/100_1091.jpg[/img]
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Last edited by darkey on Sun 01 Jul 2007 08:42 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 01 Jul 2007 02:21 AM 
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If you look at the model and catalog pages of this site, you will get quite a bit of the information you are looking for...

The last time I checked, bolt-on models didn't sell for very high values on e-bay... so I would guess you will get about half of the list price, if it's in good shape.

The cases had no special markings... so there's no way to tell if it's original. Most of the cases from this time had a slightly different shape at the headstock part (see Washburn model pictures)... but I've seen ones without this as well. Anyway, the handle has been replaced.


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PostPosted: Sun 01 Jul 2007 08:54 AM 
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Wutz wrote:
If you look at the model and catalog pages of this site, you will get quite a bit of the information you are looking for...

The last time I checked, bolt-on models didn't sell for very high values on e-bay... so I would guess you will get about half of the list price, if it's in good shape.

The cases had no special markings... so there's no way to tell if it's original. Most of the cases from this time had a slightly different shape at the headstock part (see Washburn model pictures)... but I've seen ones without this as well. Anyway, the handle has been replaced.


Hey Wutz!

Thanks for the reply! no doubt about it, this site is a Great resource. I'd like to be able to put a date to it though, and i can't find anything out about that, short of the serial number.

Do you, or anyone else, think having the exact year is that important for this guitar?

I guess i'm not surprised about your price estimate; but boy, this one just really feels good! it was definately made on a "good day". :P

thanks again!

chris


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PostPosted: Sun 01 Jul 2007 09:20 AM 
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The exact year is not necessarily that important but date range helps.

You should also consider the Wing series were made by quite a few Japanese manufacturers, and possibly even a Korean or two. It would appear only a percentage were made by Matsumoku.

If the knobs are original and "Made In Japan" is not stamped on the neckplate it might have been made after production shifted away from Japan to other parts of the world.

I'm not sure what the little plastic thingy is on the jack but you may want to lift it and check for cracks or damage.

Normally the Ravens hover in the $200 range. I suspect that online shop is trying to milk it for what it is worth and then some as they would otherwise probably list it on eBay. There are more and more sites these days trying to cash in on the Japanese guitar craze attempting to sell guitars for twice or more what they would bring in an open market (such as eBay).

Setting a baseline price too high on eBay can often scare off bids and competition between bidders. Summer time is a rather bad time to list a guitar and the winter months much more favorable.

A guitar will bring what the market will bear at any given time. It is left to chance, how many people browsing are interested, and what they are willing to spend at that time.


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PostPosted: Sun 01 Jul 2007 05:58 PM 
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Not sure if it's Korean.. all the Korean Wings i've seen so far have a different Washburn logo on the headstock. However there are some differences between this guitar and the usual/common Ravens.

Normally the neck plate on the back has a stamped/engraved serial number (2 letters, 6 digits, first 2 digits mark the production year) and Washburn logo. Also the pickups are different (the org. ones have hex pole pieces and 3 screws for height adjustment) and so are the tuners.

Maybe the plastic thingy is to avoid scratching from pluggin' and unpluggin'?

It's a pretty guitar tough, sweet colour and indeed it looks like it is in a fine shape.
:up:

H.


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PostPosted: Mon 02 Jul 2007 08:08 PM 
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Crusty wrote:
The exact year is not necessarily that important but date range helps.

You should also consider the Wing series were made by quite a few Japanese manufacturers, and possibly even a Korean or two. It would appear only a percentage were made by Matsumoku.

If the knobs are original and "Made In Japan" is not stamped on the neckplate it might have been made after production shifted away from Japan to other parts of the world.

I'm not sure what the little plastic thingy is on the jack but you may want to lift it and check for cracks or damage.

Normally the Ravens hover in the $200 range. I suspect that online shop is trying to milk it for what it is worth and then some as they would otherwise probably list it on eBay. There are more and more sites these days trying to cash in on the Japanese guitar craze attempting to sell guitars for twice or more what they would bring in an open market (such as eBay).

Setting a baseline price too high on eBay can often scare off bids and competition between bidders. Summer time is a rather bad time to list a guitar and the winter months much more favorable.

A guitar will bring what the market will bear at any given time. It is left to chance, how many people browsing are interested, and what they are willing to spend at that time.


hey crusty-

thanks for your reply! i called washburn again - this time i got a rough production range of from "about 78 - 83". he was certain it is a matsumoko as washburn didn't start with korean production until {about again!} "about 92-93".
someone ventured on the other site it is an early raven due to the lack of the stamped neckplate - and the rounded access cover on back. that "thingy" is a homemade {at least to my eye} protector for the plug. neat idea.

and yes - i know all about how unpredictable ebay can be; i've relisted things 4-5-6 times without selling - then the price goes through the roof! it REALLY is a game of timing and chance! i've sold everything on there - except guitars; i never knew this was an off season - thanks! -

and thanks for your input too...

chris


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PostPosted: Mon 02 Jul 2007 08:20 PM 
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G3H wrote:
Not sure if it's Korean.. all the Korean Wings i've seen so far have a different Washburn logo on the headstock. However there are some differences between this guitar and the usual/common Ravens.

Normally the neck plate on the back has a stamped/engraved serial number (2 letters, 6 digits, first 2 digits mark the production year) and Washburn logo. Also the pickups are different (the org. ones have hex pole pieces and 3 screws for height adjustment) and so are the tuners.

Maybe the plastic thingy is to avoid scratching from pluggin' and unpluggin'?

It's a pretty guitar tough, sweet colour and indeed it looks like it is in a fine shape.
:up:

H.


hey g3h -

thanks for your reply! as for the tuners, they're kind of an odd shape; wouldn't i see signs {ie holes, paint impressions etc} if they were replaced? theres no sign of any work around them. i can't find a factory pic of the headstock showing the tuners - got any ideas? {including the matsumoko site!}

from what i can see in the original catalog scans, the pickups look the same - at least as far as screw number and positioning, but i can't make out the poles.
can you tell me if these are the washburn "high sustain" pickups, or "open coil"? {like on some of the better wing series}



i {think!} i answered your other points in the above reply; if you feel i'm off, Please let me know!

thanks again!
chris


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PostPosted: Mon 02 Jul 2007 08:51 PM 
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The two fellows I used to communicate with at Washburn are apparently now gone and the archive folks left have for the most part dropped the ball. Some of this contradicts what Mike Beaty and Michael Metlow had originally told me in the past. Until I was put in contact with them answers were quite often "flavor of the day". The folks on the other end had no idea I had called with the same questions several times that very week yet received different answers every time.

Mike and Michael were almost certain not only Matsuomku but at least two, likely more other manufacturers were contracted (records no longer exist but they did have some documentation in their possesion). They indicated only a percentage of guitars were contracted through Matsuoku. Production was split up among a number of sources. Mike and Michael are the ones that contributed some of the Washburn lit and the catalog proof (actual photo used in one of the catalogs).

It is beginning to look like Yamaki was one of those manufacturers and comparing similarities possibly quite a few. For a long time Daions (made by Yamaki) were wrongly attributed to Matsumoku.

I can say for almost certain the Raven I have was not made by Matsumoku.

Something Matsumoku was very consistent about was serial numbers. Every one of the Matts I have had in my hands had a serial number.

In any case I have to admit I do like the transparent finish over the opaque.


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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jul 2007 04:44 PM 
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I had a 1981 Raven and it had the serial number on the bolt plate, Washburn tuners, and the pickups had Goto stamped on the back. The Washburn power sustain pickups were put in the higher end models, but not the Raven. The Goto pickups sounded awesome. With the different tuning keys and no serial number, I agree, this one didn't come from Matsumoku. However, it certainly looks nice...and if it plays good, who cares! As for value, I agree you won't get more than $200, and honestly, somewhere around $175 might even be more realistic.


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PostPosted: Fri 13 Jul 2007 07:01 AM 
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I suspect the case might be original. It's got the same shape as my Falcon case, the same gray lining and locks in the same places. The only difference I can see is that the Falcon case had a contoured top that matched the carved top of the guitar. Does your case have the Washburn logo on it?

It looks very similar to the 1982 (I think) Raven I used to have. Pickups, tuners and neck plate might have been changed but the rest looks identical. You might want to have a look at the construction to see whether it's ply or not. You should be able to see this in the control cavity or pickup cavities.


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