The Guitar Gallery Forums - The Guitar Legacy of Matsumoku

Q&A, discussion, and information for the labels covered by The Guitar Gallery (Specifically and exclusively guitars made by Matsumoku up to 1987)
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Feb 2007 08:34 AM 
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Virtuoso
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Are 2nd fret scarf joints a sure indication of Korean manufacture of the 80's and after? Did anyone else use them, or did they ever appear before Korean manufacture started?


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PostPosted: Sun 25 Feb 2007 10:09 AM 
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That's a good question. I have never seen them on decent guitars, nor have I seen them on guitars made by Matsumoku. It is pretty much a Korean, Chinese, Phillipine thing. In other words a joint like this is almost a clear indication of later manufacture.

The first post in this forum might offer some resources that will yield more specific answers.


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PostPosted: Sun 25 Feb 2007 02:07 PM 
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THat's what I thought. I have an Electra neck here with a scarf joint like that, and my opinion is that it was from a PCM Electra made by Kasuga during their early days of Korean manufacture. It's more than a bit of an anomaly- it's a bent-headstock neck from a Vee, and the only PCM Electra Vee I know has a strat-like headstock, 6 on a side instead of 3 on 3.

So my question was 'is there any chance this was made earlier, in Japan?'

Probably not- and it's an interesting bit of evidence. If I had the rest of the guitar it would be ever better!

Thanks!

P.S.- those scarf joints now are so common, and Korean guitars have gotten better, so there are actually some modern guitars with scarf joints that are pretty good- the modern Epiphone Vees and Thunderbirds have them, and theyr'e pretty decent guitars. Of course the problem is, if they fall over once the neck will likely break, never to be repaired again, and the guitar is trashed. It feels like planned obsolesence, almost, and it's too bad, it makes me hesitant to like what are otherwise pretty good axes.


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PostPosted: Sun 25 Feb 2007 02:38 PM 
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I really don't have any insight or opinion on any manufacturer other than Matsumoku.

Maybe Korean guitars have improved, and not every guitar with a scarf joint is going to kink. I had an Ibanez AS-80 with it that was not kinked, but had to sort through 7 at that store in the same series, all of the others WERE kinked. This was a 1998 model if I remember correctly.

I still have a first run Hamer SATF with that joint and it is not kinked. I have seen quite a few since this with a kink in the neck at the joint, in particular the later versions of the same model.

Only time will tell. Sometimes very similar woods are used for the two pieces, others not. The more dissimilar the more the chance a kink or hump will form over time. If none does that's GREAT! If one does, well, there goes an investment unless someone local knows how to remove the hump.

This is probably getting a bit out of scope so I should probably bow out with this post.


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PostPosted: Sun 25 Feb 2007 06:38 PM 
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I forgot about the kinking issue. I guess I've been lucky. The electra neck here is indeed from identical kind of wood. Man, I can just imagine how bad it would be to have two different densities or strengths of wood- eek, indeed!


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 Post subject: 3rd Fret Scarf Joint
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr 2007 07:40 PM 
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Hello, This is my first post :-?
I have a early 1978? Washburn falcon #78***.
5 Piece neck, Birds eye maple under the 6th string.
Mahogany or Rosewood sandwiching Rock maple in center.
Tiger maple under the 1st string.
And it's scarfed at the 3rd fret :-? :-? .
Here's a case of different woods, a scarf, 29 years, and still straight.
To my understanding, it's an Uncle Matt. But my knowledge is limited.
Can anyone shed some light on this??
I'll post a pic if I can figure out how to.
Thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr 2007 07:51 PM 
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Hmmm. Scarf joint on a Japanese Washburn. Not too sure. To date I've not seen a single Matsumoku guitar with a scarf joint in the neck.

The wings were re-introduced in the 1990s, being made elsewhere other than Japan. Numbering was per Washburn specifications, not necessarily the manufacturer's.

Also, Matsumoku was not the only manufacturer contracted for the wings, early and later both.

Pics would be good.

I have a Raven with ply body, which is another thing not likened to Matsumoku. This Raven is from the 1980s.

No mention was made by the Washburn archives guys as to who and where the Wings were made, only that they were made in several countries and a number of manufacturers.


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PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr 2007 08:11 PM 
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I saw a thread in the Washburn section dated 2004 that
Liquidlen posted. and he basically described mine to the tee.
2 full radiused cutaways instead of the normal 90 deg. at Body/Neck.
2 micro switches for coil taps.
But nothing was mentioned about scarf joint.??
Is there a help section for loading pics from a pc.??
Thanks


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Apr 2007 07:35 AM 
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Location: Grand Absurdity, VA, temporary refuge of the Hollywood Avenger
I have a '95 Ibanez MIJ Talman, it's got a scarf joint that's perfect as of now, thanks so much for making me worry about it... :P

je


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Apr 2007 08:01 AM 
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I have had in the neighborhood of 30 guitars with scarf joints (meaning ones I have owned). Only a few had kinks but this was something I looked for and seldom bought one that was less than 3 or 4 years old.

I am NOT saying ALL scarf joints will go south. Just that they are much more prone to it due to the construction and the fact the the Korean, Chinese, Phillipines, and all the other low-labor-cost manufacturers have no idea what properly aged wood is. Not every recapped tire will blow out before it is replaced, but they are more likely to do so than a tire manufactured in the normal method.

The grain is sparse and uneven, solids density is low, cell walls are thin and irregular. With this in mind using two entirely different pieces of wood spliced together in the MIDDLE of the neck is simply asking for trouble. It's new growth wood, not old growth, and fast growth, not slow. Tighter growth rings in the wood means greater density and more even grain.

In this world belonging to the throwaway generation and the "I'm not going to pay a lot for that muffler" mentality it only makes sense to produce guitars as cheaply as possible.

I have cooked straight many more scarf joint necks than ones I have owned. Epiphone is the worst offender and others such as Samick, B.C.Rich cheapie series, then Iabanez B shelf fall in behind.

My point being you well seldom see an 80's Japanese guitar with this kind of joint. Scarf joints are not used because it is best, but to reduce production costs. It is simply much cheaper.

If you've got a guitar that has a few years on it with a scarf joint and it has not warped or kinked you're doing fine. Three I had I still see now and then have this and all are still straight as an arrow, and one is even strung with 13's!


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