The Guitar Gallery Forums - The Guitar Legacy of Matsumoku

So I found one of these Demons.
Plays really really nice.

Graham, would you mind taking another look at the serial number and make sure that the first digit is a "1" rather than an "I"? Some later Vantages (mostly funny-shaped ones) have an "I" prefix sn.

Here it is!!!

I had to modify two intonation screws from a Gibby LP saddle, but was able to get things working right. Without stripping the threads-heaven forbid!!

The neck plate sn is definitely
1 09 002x

I would be grateful to find definitive knowledge regarding exactly what month my Red VOODOO was born, or even just to know what month they were tooled.

I really sort-of fancy one of these, eh, though my acquisition days are now behind me....

I think Don had one ages ago....

Cool case, too; love that rounded bum on it!

Happy, too, to see new instruments to the board!!

Graham, assuming that Vantage was using the YMMXXXX numbering system in late 1981, your neck plate was presumably the the 2Xth to be stamped for this production run in September 1981. That doesn't necessarily mean that your guitar was assembled in that month or that it was the 2Xth one built. If Matsumoku's practice was anything like Fender's (See Tony Bacon's "The Fender Book") the neck plates would be stamped, dropped in a bucket and sent to the plating shop. After plating they would be dumped in another bucket and sent to the final assembly station. At this point the plates would be in no particular order and the assembler would just grab a plate from the top of the bucket and install it.

And what if you are wrong, and the craftsmen/women took pride in their work (which is a well known desirable trait among the workers there at that time) and did exactly the opposite of what you claim to recite from some fender book?
I think , and it's my opinion only at this time, that you may very well be wrong and that the expectation of every employee at that facility would have been diligent enough to manufacture and keep the proper sequence of units and neck plates to the individual guitars being tooled.

BTW your response is pretty cold and clinical towards a new member IMO just sayin...
who cares about a pail
and some batch of bodies and necks
I think those folks didn't do it the way you describe.

If you want it to be made on certain date in a certain month of a certain year then it is. For you. It really adds little to it's value as it was a production guitar. Custom or limited runs it may add value. Not for a mass produced model.

Unlike a serial number stamped in the wood there is no guarantee possible that the plate matches the guitar's origin number. They very well could have been pulled from a batch. A batch makes more sense as it is efficient.

An FV575 is unfortunately not much of an investment. For insurance purposes if you feel it is a valuable guitar an appraisal is necessary just as it is for a custom car or motorcycle. Most sensible insurance companies will want one if the claimed amount is above what a blue book indicates.

Guitars with serials stamped in the wood are a different story where serial number accuracy is important. Meticulous records had be kept to ensure no two serials are repeated and they are stamped at the time of manufacture. The Gerry Cott model would be a good example where the first few would be more valuable than the rest.

It still stands the assumptions that the serial indicates the guitar was the umpteenth one made that year, whether it was a model change in the series that differs from the only pic of it we have, and the strap buttons came from the factory or not (although it does make sense), cannot be proven. Until it is proven it is non-fact.

I'm not knocking you at all. You have every right to your position and I have no gripe with it.

I just tend to take a more cautious approach where "rare", "hard to find", or "custom" is concerned.

The info that is within these pages that everyone has meticulously contributed points towards a lim ed run.
blue, red, black and white. later on as a full production model "offered in black and white" after inception in "late 81" and "between catalogues"

All im trying to ascertain is what month these things were made available according to the guru's here and where? This one has the new logo that is inherent to north America.
which global market were they distributed in?
I am simply trying to date this thing according to the info found within these very pages and pages that have been assembled.

Apart from telling me this is a "regular run" production guitar (which contradicts all the info found herein all these Vantage pages) why can't any one be more supportive in their reply?

Crusty Sir, I thank you for taking the time to respond.
My previous rant is not directed towards you.

There were very, very few lines that were finished at Matsumoku the way you describe; the APII Gerry Cott, the Westone Pantera X350MA (90 built), and perhaps the Vantage VA series were quite probably produced and finished with an awful lot of hands-on work, but the majority were made on a production line. Even my Electra XV-1 Lady, which, according to the chief designer at Matsumoku at the time had a production run of just 200, was not a hand built guitar. The strength of Matsumoku, and Ibanez, in this era was that they brought serious quality to a mass-produced, production line type instrument.

Now, Vantage are notorious amongst us for having model changes within a run and other production sins, so the FV575 could well be a hand built, hand finished instrument but, if I'm honest, I don't think they are! Don't get wrong, I love the Vantage line and performed live for 25+ years with a VA900 -before I knew exactly what I had!!- and now own about 8 Vantage electric and acoustic guitars made by Matsumoku!

The Matsumoku workers may well have taken more pride in their work than the Fender "neckplates in a bucket" example - christ, I hope so!! - but I'd have to agree with the opinion - and it is only that, though an educated one! - that 98% of the Uncles' guitars were mass produced.

That said, it doesn't matter what we think; how does it play? Do you like it? I know I quite fancy it, eh!!

Please don't mistake our pessimism for cynicism; we love the fact that we have a new board member who is invested in his instrument but - and believe me, we've all had personal experience of "rare, pre-production, blah blah blah" instruments and have been caught out and/or educated!!